Podcast Review: Born for This – Two IVF (first) babies have a chat

I have to confess that since the proliferation of the podcast as a form of popular media (especially during the pandemic) I struggle to adjust to its informal, often free-form approach to broadcasting, preferring the slightly more structured podcasts that come with a production team and a loose script. In order to review 'The IVF (first) babies have a chat', a podcast episode from Elizabeth Carr's series about all things IVF and assisted reproduction in the USA, I have put my prejudices aside.

Firstly, some background. The host, Carr (born 1981), was the first IVF baby to be born in the USA, three years after Louise Brown was born in the UK. A trained journalist, she is an advocate for all things IVF and has dedicated her professional life to 'smashing stigmas' around assisted reproduction.

In this episode she interviews Brown, who needs little introduction to BioNews readers, about their shared legacy as the first IVF babies in their respective countries. In the course of the interview, they discuss experiences at the hands of the media and the general public; the strange juxtapositions between the ordinary, family-based lives they lead and the spotlight they both sometimes inhabit due to the continuing interest in the momentous science that was to lead to their births.

There is an obvious camaraderie between the two women from the get-go. They already know each other, having first met, fittingly, 'on stage' at an event. Having been the object of frenzied media scrutiny since birth (in Brown's case, even during her mother's caesarean, which was filmed to prevent further wild speculation on the part of the media and other groups), both cheerfully admit 'we've opened ourselves up to talk to people'. They seem philosophically accepting about the lack of choice they had in this process and the perceived public ownership of their families' stories – which came with huge attention from the media at the time and scant regard for the little privacy they had retained.

Brown reads from a long list of the strangest questions she has been asked. These range from the bizarre 'Do you feel any affinity to Dolly the sheep?' to the downright insulting 'Are you fat because you are an IVF baby?'. The questions posed are not mindful of science or even basic human courtesy. Her bafflement is clear under the general laughter. It must be tiring to field such enquiries from those only interested in twisting fact into sensationalist fiction. This segment should be required listening in journalism training, as an example of how not to approach the job of reporting.

Throughout the podcast it becomes clear that, thrust into the public eye as they both are, neither Carr nor Brown appear to have the luxury of having someone to manage their social media accounts, something that swallows up much of their time (both have day jobs). Consequently, their celebrity feels more relatable, their reactions free from the bland patina of modern-day fame. Being recognised in the supermarket is one thing – but, as Brown exclaims, 'wait till you see a play about yourself!' (see BioNews 1243). Her unstarry recollections of meeting the cast (Draco Malfoy, aka Tom Felton, played Robert Edwards) underline just how unaffected she is by her own celebrity.

Carr is a generous host, taking a back seat in the interview process and only reacting occasionally; this is Brown's episode and in truth, she is a formidable and unself-conscious storyteller, occasionally straying into unfiltered tangents, which Carr doesn't edit out.

Carr's own memoir 'Under the Microscope' is introduced on her website as 'the perfect gift for any budding IVF doctor, infertility patient, or history buff.' This brings me to the main question I had about the whole podcast (indeed the series), because I was unsure about its target audience. Is it there to reassure would-be parents about the normality of the children resulting from IVF? Does it provide insights for counsellors or clinical staff?

The answer, for me, is in Carr's book description. Its value lies in the ability to document, at a deeply emotional and domestic level, the everyday impact of a monumental scientific discovery. By allowing these voices to be heard, informal and unedited, this podcast provides a detailed and nuanced historical record that neutralises all attempts to hijack and distort the practice of IVF by poorly informed journalists and vested interest groups. This is of particular importance given the current discourse (or lack of it) around women's reproductive rights in the USA. Without once talking politics, Carr and Brown take the (unvarnished) discussion back to where it belongs – the patients and the children.