I have been patiently waiting for Make People Better, a film centred around Dr He Jiankui's controversial (to say the least) creation of genome-edited babies, to reach our shores since 2022. For distribution reasons the film is still unavailable in the UK.
Fortuitously, the filmmakers have also released an accompanying podcast series, available in the UK on all major streaming platforms. The motivation for my wait, and patience, were the unique insights the film promised around the Dr He affair – and so I am equally excited for the podcast, which promises to cover some of the same ground.
Our hosts are Cody Sheehy, a journalist and documentary filmmaker, and Dr Samira Kiani, an associate professor of bioengineering. The podcast is seven episodes long, each coming in at around 45 minutes in length. However, for those who don't have six hours to spare, I think the first episode – which I'll focus on here – and the two following it will be most of interest to BioNews readers.
Episode one, rather unimaginatively titled 'Designer Babies', promises to fill the gap left by the film. It covers the Dr He incident. For those who have somehow managed to avoid learning about the controversy, see BioNews 977 and 1029.
Crucially, Sheehy and Dr Kiani promise a direct, on-the-record interview with Dr He. My interest is most certainly piqued, although I find the tone slightly irritating, the pair emphasising that we are on 'the cusp of a genetic engineering revolution'. With the first genome editing tools now being over 15 years old, this feels hyperbolic.
The ethics of the event and the intrigue surrounding it are a focus. In the first half, Sheehy and Dr Kiani interview Dr Ben Hurlburt, an associate professor working on the governance of biotechnology. In a wide-ranging conversation, they cover much of the backstory of Dr He and the ethics of his actions. In one phrase, Dr Hurlburt captures my sentiment perfectly: that the notion of bettering life is 'becoming increasingly feasible – but boy is it hubristic'.
There is a considerable depth of interesting detail here, much of it new to me, and I suspect perhaps for the average BioNews reader too. I won't spoil the details, but the extent of Dr He's network of mentees and connections in US academia are stark when laid out in full. The trio also explore the role of the Chinese government in the affair, which I will allow you to make your own mind up on, but the details presented are explosive.
Dr Hubris emerges as a key theme for this episode and the series more generally. Indeed, nothing showcases this more than the episode's second half. This should stand as its pièce de résistance: the first interview with Dr He since his arrest and subsequent return to the public eye. But it is a measly two minutes in length, and clearly highly rehearsed. Dr He parrots pre-ordained lines, as the hosts themselves acknowledge, despite offering no pushback. A standout is that 'everyone deserves freedom from genetic disease'. One can't help but wonder how potentially introducing entirely novel heritable genetic diseases via the off-target effects of CRISPR fits that philosophy.
Nevertheless, it is testament to the pair they got Dr He to talk at all. His total lack of self-reflection and jovial tone are shocking to the point of absurdity. Contemplation of the risks, ethics and consequences of his actions doesn't feature. This alone makes the podcast worth listening to, even if it is hardly a Paxman-level cross-examination. Dr He speaking perfectly aligns with someone who lists himself as one of Time's Most Important People of 2019 in his X bio, and largely posts pictures of himself playing golf.
Even if unintentionally, the theme of hubris also feels woven into the core of the next two episodes. Episode two focuses on the murky world of curing ageing. We are treated to, among others, an interview with Dr Max More, who is a transhumanist philosopher and CEO of Alcor Life Extension Foundation, which cryopreserves the dead – promising those wealthy enough a second chance at life. In an interview with Sheehy and Dr Kiani, Dr More exhibits a brand of scientific optimism so absurd that I find myself jealous of its apparent innocence, which is perhaps unsurprising given the nature of his business.
The second half of this episode largely consists of a conversation with George Church, professor of health sciences and technology at Harvard University, Massachusetts, and two of his protegees, who collectively run Rejuvenate Bio. This startup promises to slow human ageing with genome editing but is currently focused on extending the life of your dog. Dr Kiani and Sheehy do not push Professor Church on any of his sweeping statements about solving ageing, choosing instead to nod along eagerly. This gives the segment a distinctly advertisement-like feel and again I feel let down by the pair's apparent reluctance to interview rather than platform.
Episode three pulls it back, however. It is primarily an interview with Dr Josie Zayner, CEO and founder of The ODIN, and somewhat infamous biohacker (see BioNews 1011). Having been skeptical of Dr Zayner in the past, I find myself surprised, particularly with the latter half of the episode.
Sheehy and Dr Kiani travel to the Dominican Republic with Dr Zayner, a country which has essentially no medical regulations. Faced with people desperate to access DIY CRISPR as a cure for their muscular dystrophy, Dr Zayner is forced to confront the reality of her efforts to democratise CRISPR, and this segment is fascinating. She shows remarkable self-reflection on her own hubris – perhaps the first instance of this in any of the episodes covered here. She is clearly wrestling with the inherent conflict between the fact that she 'makes money by being a brand' and the risks posed by encouraging people to inject themselves with unregulated gene therapies.
The three episodes I've highlighted here are worth a listen, especially the first and third. They are let down by a lack of criticism and challenge on the part of Sheehy and Dr Kiani, but even if it isn't always their intention, they brightly illuminate the hubris abundant in the 'biotech' scene.
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